Avia B-34 3D print

Greg Baker
Alec, did you print this yourself? Or off of Shapeways? I just got a small resin printer and am exploring a few ideas myself...😉

Jay Dubya
Mind if I keep an eye on your progress Alec?

Alec K
Sure thing Jay 👍

Greg, I had this printed by Shapeways. I am very interested in your experience with your resin printer. What software are you using (or planning to)? Are you moved yet?

Greg Baker
My Orange 10 resin printer is in a box in the middle of the pacific ocean at the moment, so I won't be doing too much with it for a bit. I haven't had a chance to really give it a workout yet, but I had some success (and a few failures) in printing some 1/700 scale jet fighters - which will be appearing on Scalemates in a week or so probably. I'm on the plane on Wednesday, and they're coming with me in a little baggy.😉

I've been trying to learn how to use Blender, but it's a bit of an uphill fight to start designing my own 3D models, but I can see a lot of potential here. The resin printer has a much smoother finish than the plastic filament ones, so I'm quite optimistic good things are going to come of this.😉

Alec K
Cool printer. I am really surprised by how smooth the finish is (at least based on the video I just saw). I am trying to learn 3D design myself. I tried Blender for few days, buy I don't think personally this is a way to go. I think something like FreeCAD is much closer in capability to what I would be using it for (i.e. mainly design by extrusion and subtraction rather than mesh). Either way, it will be a looong learning curve 🙁 😄

Spanjaard
really curious about how this goes.... how would you rate detail compared with injected plastic?

Greg Baker
There's no real comparison... the resin prints basically look like a casting. The detail is amazing. It is a bit more fiddly though. From my experience, you really need to play with the angle and the number of the supports. If you don't get it right, you just end up with a 1D silhouette of resin on the bottom of the tank. The "suction" of the wet resin needs to be overcome when the piece is still just paper thin. If it disconnects from the plate... it's a total waste.

Alec K
It's not really apples to apples, each has its pros and cons. Injection molded plastic is smooth, 3D parts have print artifacts. But, 3D has sharper details IMO. I think that (affordable) 3D printing will get to the point where it is as smooth as injected plastic. Just my 5 cents...

Spanjaard
it is a question of time, i am sure about it. before 3D gets highly detailed and easily affordable... also a question of what standard gets over all the others, i guess

Andy Ball
this seems to be glimpse of model making engineering in the future?...

bughunter
This will be an interesting project! Which primer will you use on this resin surfaces?

Jay Dubya
We might need to ask Tim to add somewhere to share CAD files on the 'site. Of course it would have to be the ones that the members have created themselves.
@GB - good luck with the transcontinental house move.

Spanjaard
good idea Jay, ask Tim as a feature request 🙂

Greg Baker
I just realized that Spanjaard was asking about resin print vs. Injected plastic. I thought the question was in regards to plastic filament printers. My response is addressing that... not actually injected plastic kits. The 3D print artifacts are a bit of a pain. I've printed a bunch of 1/700 scale planes, so I'll post some pics of that project next week (live from my new workbench in Canada).

Alec K
The print artifacts are an issue for us modelers, and I am unaware of affordable existing 3D technology that eliminates this completely (although there are commercial printers and resins that get pretty close, but each print is 100s of dollars, even small ones). I plan to use Mr. Surfacer and lots of sanding sticks to deal with the surface texture.

I think the future is here already, to speak to Andy's post. Most of the mainstream resin aftermarket parts are designed in CAD and then 3D printed on commercial 3D printers, then touched up (smoothed) and used as a master for resin casting. Interesting story about this particular model: as I mentioned already, the 3D design was done by Robert Blaschke. This was not his first effort however, as two of his other designs were turned into resin kits by Brengun (1:72 Aero A-18 and Letov Š-4). That way we get a nice smooth casting with instructions and decals of a niche subject at 1/4 of a price of printing it via Shapeways or other 3rd party printer. Brengun of course assumes the risk of selling enough of such kits to cover their costs. I don't know what the arrangement was between Robert and Brengun regarding his 3D design, so I have no idea how this fits onto the cost of the kit.

About Shapeways and similar services: most of the time I hear about someone getting into 3D printing, the first question usually is "what printer do I need"? I personally think this puts a cart waaay before the horse. Unless you have a 3D design (i.e. printable 3D design, please see Greg's 5.Aug post above), the question really should be "what software do I need to design in 3D". Rarely will we have a tested 3D design of what we want available to us (judging by the stream of resin parts available today, if more that 2 modelers are interested in a part, existing manufacturer already has it in their catalog). So, knowing if we want/can design in 3D should really be considered before worrying about buying a 3D printer. Which brings me to the the benefit of using Shapeways to print one's design: not only do I not have to worry about having the latest and greatest printer, but they also review each design for viability (again, see Greg's post), saving a lot of time and cost dealing with failed prints.

Which leads me to my last point regarding 3D print services, relating to Jay's suggestion. The amount of time invested in designing even small parts in 3D is considerable. One thing that Shapeways allows (and others, I presume) is for designers to make their designs available to others without giving away their actual files. I realize there will be enthusiasts willing to do this, but really well done stuff? I just can't imagine Robert uploading his plans here for anyone to download and take.

Of course these are just my own observations and ramblings, so if I ruffled any feathers, my advanced apologies. As my old boss used to say: "this is good stuff!". Cheers 👍

bughunter
I asked for the primer because I had trouble recently with primer on a hard and very smooth resin. Someone recommends a special resin primer RP-261 Mr. Resin Primer Surfacer, Mr. Color Matt, Lacquer, 40ml but I do not own this (yet).

Greg Baker
I basically agree with everything Alec said. I've started working on some 3D designs and they're not easy. I did design and successfully print some really rudimentary engines (basically just to stick something inside the cowling), but that was only really viable for 1/144 scale. The resin printer is a bit messy, since you're dealing with a tank of liquid resin, so I wasn't really set up properly for it. Once I get it unpacked, I think I'll be able to put it through it's paces. I was reasonably happy with my 1/700 plane efforts, but a) they still need a lot of sanding (mainly on the underside), b) the files I got (off Thingverse) were basically just rough outlines... okay for 1/700, but really meant for wargaming as opposed to serious scale model building, and b) I had a bit of trouble with the very thin wing tips rolling on me as the resin cured fully (under UV light). It's quite brittle once fully cured, so there's not much to do about that issue either.

Still, it's a really fun space to explore. One thing I'm interested in trying out is using it as replacement parts to fix nose or tail shapes.

Alec K
@bughunter: good to know and thanks for the link. I was not aware that Mr.Color had a resin-specific primer. I used Mr.Surfacer on 3D parts in the past without issues, but I soaked them in Simple Green cleaner first, as recommended somewhere online. I plan to sand/smooth after I apply the primer, hoping to level the surface initially.

@Greg: I am really looking forward to looking over you shoulder on your experience. I feel that 3D design & printing skills will become more and more appealing to modelers as the technology matures and improves. Now if we could just figure out how to print using styrene... 😄

Es-haq Khosravi
Interesting detail!

wilky
I don't have a 3D printer myself but I know someone that does and he's getting a scanner soon hopefully so I'll be getting him to scan my favourite kits/slot cars and I'll be able to have a heap of them without having to wait until someone sells them on ebay.
I'm hoping I can get him to scale up a Boomerang so I can have the only 1/24 version on the Planet

Ben M
I cleaned items I've gotten with shapeways with dish soap and water, and succesfully primed with tamiya fine surface primer. Had no problem with adhesion.

David Andrs
Cool project, Alec! Watching...

Łukasz Gliński
Wait Alec, are you telling me you built a time machine?😉 Honest, feels like watching "Back to the Future" 👍

gorby
Looks like a fascinating project Alec. 3D printing is remarkable opportunity for modellers - everything is potentially available to us now.... we just need to design it.